AC-01-45 FACULTY OF SCIENCE ACADEMIC COMMITTEE Minutes of the meeting held on Tuesday, November 20, 2001, at 2:30 p.m. in Dawson Hall, Room 409. PRESENT: Dean Shaver (Chair), Associate Dean Mendelson (Vice- Chair), Professors Arkani-Hamed, Baines, Baker, Brawer, Drury, Leighton, Nishioka, Panangaden, Silvius, Sutton, Wechsler; Associate Dean Hendershot; S. Hadland, S. Merani, C. Ward; J. D'Amico. REGRETS: Professors Farrell, Lapointe, Rasmussen; G. Preston, D. Shanks, H. Walia, C. Wu; H. Waluzyniec, D. Crawford. DOCUMENTS: AC-01-9(Revised), AC-01-14(Revised) AC-01-16 to AC-01-18 AC-01-29 to AC-01-44 Dean Shaver called the meeting to order at 2:35 p.m. (1) ADOPTION OF AGENDA Associate Dean Hendershot moved, seconded by Ms. Ward, that the Agenda be adopted. The motion carried. (2) MINUTES OF OCTOBER 23,2001 AC-01-29 Mr. Merani moved, seconded by Prof. Baines, that the minutes be approved. The motion carried. (3) BUSINESS ARISING FROM THE MINUTES 303.1 In response to a member's desire for an electronic copy of the minutes, Dean Shaver suggested that the minutes be posted on the Web before they were officially approved, with a note to that effect. (4) MINOR COURSE CHANGES AC-01-30 (For information) (5) MATHEMATICS & STATISTICS B.Sc. Program Changes: - Joint Honours Mathematics & Computer Science AC-01-31 Prof. Drury moved, seconded by Prof. Panangaden, that the program changes be approved. The motion carried. B.A. Program Changes (For Information): - Joint Honours Mathematics & Computer Science AC-01-32 (6) PSYCHOLOGY New Course: 204-503A Computational Psychology AC-01-14(Revised) 3 credits Associate Dean Mendelson moved, seconded by Prof. Sutton, that the course be adopted. The motion carried. Program Changes: - Faculty Program in Psychology AC-01-16 - Major Program in Psychology AC-01-17 - Honours Program in Psychology AC-01-18 306.1 Associate Dean Mendelson explained the changes and answered a number of questions from members. During the discussion, the issue of the difference between Faculty and Major Programs arose, and Dean Shaver suggested that this issue be dealt with after the program changes themselves had been considered. Associate Dean Mendelson moved, seconded by Prof. Sutton, that the above program changes be approved. The motion carried. 306.2 Dean Shaver then called for a discussion on the distinctions between programs in the Faculty of Science. 306.3 A member raised the issue of the number of credits required for Honours programs, and pointed out that the Honours Program in Psychology (as well as the Faculty and Major Programs) required 54 credits, whereas some other Honours programs in Science required more than 70. 306.4 A member suggested that Faculty programs could be used for interdisciplinary studies, and thus be used as a vehicle for providing educational breadth. 306.5 A member mentioned that Honours programs focussed on a research experience for students, and that the exact number of required credits was not really relevant to this. 306.6 It was pointed out that a focus on breadth could be beneficial for a Psychology student, and that the Faculty Program in Psychology allowed students the option of choosing breadth or depth. 306.7 It was suggested that statistics be gathered on the credit differences between Faculty and Major programs, and on the number of students enrolled in Faculty programs, and that Faculty programs should possibly be abolished. 306.8 Another member pointed out that it was important to provide choice for students, even if enrolment in a given program was low. 306.9 A member mentioned that Faculty programs could be used by students to obtain a broad education, including in cases where they anticipate being very narrowly specialized in the future. 306.10 Dean Shaver suggested that statistics be compiled, and that the issue of Faculty programs be discussed at a future meeting, at which he would ask several people to address the issue. It was possible that Major and Honours programs could be discussed at a different meeting. (7) BIOLOGY 177-301A/B Cell and Molecular Laboratory AC-01-33 4 credits Changes in credit weight & course description 307.1 In response to a member who said that previous Academic Committee meetings had suggested that the workload in this course be decreased, rather than raising the credit weight, it was stated that decreasing the workload was not a viable option because there was such a large amount of information that had to be imparted to students. 307.2 It was pointed out that four-credit courses were awkward for students, and it was suggested that departments look into providing one- and two-credit courses. Mr. Merani moved, seconded by Ms. Ward, that the changes be approved. The motion carried. Program Changes: - Faculty Program in Biology AC-01-34 - Major Program in Biology AC-01-35 - Honours Program in Biology AC-01-36 Prof. Sutton moved, seconded by Ms. Ward, that the above program changes be approved. The motion carried. (8) SCIENCE FOR TEACHERS Program Changes: - Major in Biology & Geography AC-01-37 - Major in Biology & Chemistry AC-01-38 - Major in Biology & Mathematics AC-01-39 Associate Dean Mendelson moved, seconded by Prof. Sutton, that the above program changes be approved. The motion carried. (9) MIDTERM EXAMINATIONS IN COURSES AC-01-40 309.1 Associate Dean Mendelson introduced the above document, and asked members for comments. 309.2 A member said it would be helpful to know the proportion of courses consisting of a final exam worth 100%. 309.3 Members agreed that a 100% final was not appropriate. However, they felt that two or three mid-term exams would give rise to severe logistical problems, especially if this were required across the Faculty. 309.4 A member suggested that students could be given non- graded mid-term exams, with the answers being provided a week or so later. This would allow students to check their progress, without logistical problems. 309.5 It was suggested that some form of early feedback for students be mandatory. 309.6 Dean Shaver said that he would consult with Associate Dean Mendelson, and that if he did bring the issue back to the Academic Committee, it would probably be in the form of some sort of suggested general guidelines for feedback. (10) LETTER GRADES IN BANNER 310.1 In order to initiate the discussion, Dean Shaver asked for a motion to implement the grade of A+. 310.2 Prof. Baines moved, seconded by Prof. Baker, that the Academic Committee recommend that the University adopt the grade of A+ with a GPA value of 4.3. 310.3 Prof. Baines had previously circulated a document (AC- 01-42) concerning what he saw as the flaws in the current system. He tabled an additional document (AC- 01-43) at the meeting. 310.4 Prof. Baines briefly described documents AC-01-42/43, which he said supported the introduction of an A+ grade. He said that McGill's current system disadvantaged its students compared to students from other universities, many of which have a grade of A+. 310.5 Ms. Ward had previously circulated a document (AC-01- 44). She went over the main points raised in the document, and emphasized that student representatives of the societies of a number of departments were opposed to an A+. 310.6 Several members said that most students' grades would look worse with the introduction of an A+, and one member said he believed the advantages of introducing an A+ would be far outweighed by the disadvantages. 310.7 A member said that he believed the introduction of an A+ would lead to grade inflation. 310.8 Prof. Panangaden moved, seconded by Drury, an amendment that the GPA value of both an A and an A+ be 4.0. 310.9 In speaking against the amendment, Prof. Baines said that he would like to see truly excellent performance rewarded by an A+ value of 4.3 to be used in CGPA and SGPA calculations, allowing students to make up for an A-, but with a maximum value of 4.0 to appear on students' transcripts. 310.10 A member suggested that the simplest solution overall would be to implement an A+ with a value of 4.0. This would not affect GPA values for students, but grades of A+ would appear on students' transcripts, thus rewarding those students who obtained them. However, another member pointed out that this reward would not be apparent when only GPA values, as opposed to individual transcripts, were compared for students. 310.11 A vote was held on the amendment: 12 For 4 Against The amendment carried. 310.12 Prof. Drury moved, seconded by Prof. Brawer, an amendment that the range for an A+ be 93% to 100%. 310.13 A vote was held on the amendment: 11 For 3 Against The amendment carried. 310.14 A vote was held on the original motion: 11 For 4 Against 1 Abstention The motion carried. (11) REASSESSMENT/REREAD POLICY AC-01-9(Revised) -Guidelines: Departmental Reassessment Policies AC-01-41 311.1 Associate Dean Mendelson introduced the above topic. 311.2 There was a discussion, during which there was disagreement over what exactly was meant by the terms "independent" and "reassessment." It was also queried why a second grade should necessarily be considered more accurate than the first grade. A member pointed out that re-grading an exam "in a vacuum" was problematic. 311.3 Associate Dean Mendelson moved, seconded by Prof. Baker, that the issue be tabled to the next Academic Committee meeting, at which time Associate Dean Mendelson would provide revised documents. The motion carried. (12) OTHER BUSINESS 312.1 A member raised the issue of credit weight and workload for laboratory courses, and said that the reconciliation of the two was due to be reflected in the 2002/2003 Calendar. 312.2 Dean Shaver said that this issue should be brought up under Business Arising at the next Academic Committee meeting. 312.3 Dean Shaver thanked members for an interesting and stimulating meeting. The meeting adjourned at 5:10 p.m. josie\academic\ACMinNov.doc